I've crashed with Dunlops 214


gazpachu

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Hi,

A couple of days ago I had an accident in Newbury. I'm mostly fine. My nouse was bleeding and my knees hurt, but the head is fine. I fainted for a couple of minutes. I lost control of the back tyre in the second part of a double bend (first right then left). It was probably the 5th bend of the morning. I wasn't very fast, maybe around 30mph but my tyres were really cold (the bike was in open air all night) and it was 8:15 in the morning with an aprox. air temp of 5 to 10 Celsius, which means very cold asphalt! I completely forgot about the temperature and went too confident into the bend... :(

Anyway, I was wondering if you guys could give me some tips and recommendations regarding the Dunlop 214 tyres. I've heard other bikers say that they wait around 10 minutes for the tyres to warm up before pushing the bike... How do you guys do it? What's the recommended temperature? Do you use 42psi at the back and 36psi in the front? Do you use something like Fobo Bike to know the temperature?

And lastly, which place do you recommend to change tyres in London? and which place to fix a dent in the tank (including new paint)?

Thanks!
 
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RipGroove

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I have Michelin Pilot Road 4's and when I went for a static suspension setup at my local suspension place they put 36psi front and rear. Bike feels great. With regards to knowing if your tyres are warm there are so many factors that I don't think a single rule of thumb would always apply.


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RipGroove

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What might be better to satisfy your curiosity is an infrared temp gun, you could take note of the ambient temp, go ride for 10 mins then jump off quick and check the inner, outer and middle sections of the tyre. You'd only need to do this a few times to get a general idea. Something like this:

TPI 368 Infrared Non-Contact Pocket Thermometer | Thermometers | Screwfix.com


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gazpachu

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That's a great advice and much cheaper than Fobo Bike. Thanks!

In this FZ09 thread and this other one, triplethreat user said:
running the tires at the 36/42 psi ratings will have a much greater chance to get you in trouble because the pressures are just so high that the tires are simply not warming up even close to a good operating temperature for grip. Obviously if you are riding the bike, or any bike with the bike loaded to the maximum rated load for that particular motorcycle, then, and only then would I be running even close to the 36/42 numbers
and this:

Do you realize THAT pressure is for a maximum load on the bike including rider, passenger, and any and all equipment including luggage, backpacks, etc? As I said, I'm not familiar with those particular tires, but I can assure you that those numbers will make the tire like a steel wheel on the road. Every tire made, no matter the manufacturer, HAS to flex to build up heat and get to the proper operating temperature. At 42psi, that tire simply will not flex enough to get heat into it. Throw in the 45 degree temperatures that you were in, and that tire simply isn't heating up at all. So, the recommendation of lowering the tire pressure, made by some of the folks over on the MT-09 forum, as well as the guys on this forum is not only prudent, but mandatory in order to get the tires heated up. The tire sidewall rating is to cover the manufacturer's ass in case the bike is loaded to the max. So is the tire pressure rating that is in the owner's manual. I would guess that a safe psi for that tire would fall inline with many of the other tires out there that are on bike like this....30/31 cold pressure. A classic example of this would be the Michelin Power Cup rear that I run on my track bike. Sidewall = 42psi. Actual tire pressure in the real world.....21-22psi cold.......That's NOT A MISPRINT..........21-22psi. The D214s are no exception.....if you run the sidewall pressure, you'll end up on your ass unless the bike is loaded beyond the max rating of the bike itself.
But I've checked the manual and the recommended pressure for ALL conditions (with any load) and type of riding is always 36F/42R psi. It doesn't mention either any particular pressure when the weather is cold. The only models mentioned in the manual are the Dunlop 214F and Bridgestone S20.

To be honest, I'm not 100% sure this is accurate info. I was fine riding with under 42psi in the rear and what a coincidence that when I change it to 42 I have the accident :/ I will try to upload some pictures of my rear tyre, so you guys can let me know your opinion.
 
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gazpachu

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And another interesting view from FJRider in this post:

As pointed out on the MT-09 forum the Dunlop D214 were developed at the end of 2012 as the "factory tyre for the Kawa Z800 and is now also the factory tyre for the brand new Kawa Z1000". They are not made by Dunlop but are sourced by Sumitomo in Japan. I have ridden on slick new tires many, many times. I was waiting at a stop light and made a left turn behind a car onto a road with a 35 MPH limit and the rear tire just slid out without any warning. This tire was beyond slick. It was dangerous.

Whether they were were over inflated for the conditions or not - I no longer trust these tires and would advise others riding them to lower the pressure and be extra careful. For me, I have a new set of Pilot Power 3's ready to go on once the weather warms up. If you want the D214 tires for examination (not to ride) I will send them to you for free if you pay the shipping. I am not riding on them any more.

My hope is that nobody else has my experience with them.
 

RipGroove

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Personally I'm pretty confident that my local suspension/race prep place know what they're doing so when they put a cold pressure of 36psi in both my front and rear for fast road riding was happy.

Without on the fly proper tyre monitoring you'll never really know what psi you actually have in your tyre once it's warmed up fully (obviously psi increases as the tyres get warmer). The best you can do is experiment a little and personally I'd always lean towards a softer tyre as an under inflated tyre 'should' grip better than an over inflated tyre.

And technically you should always reset your tyre pressure before you go out on your bike while the tyres are still cold, that way no matter if it's hot or cold outside on that particular day your always running the correct pressure.

I got one of these, very well made seems accurate and is very quick and easy to use what with its flexible hose and swivel head (great for the MT's valves as they aren't 90°), great price too:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0002GV286?pc_redir=T1


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gazpachu

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Thanks for the tip, RipGroove.

Here are the pics of my rear and front Dunlops. They look good to me. What do you guys think? I've only done 2348 miles since March 2015 and I think they still have some life remaining. The only thing I was a bit concerned is that I've been riding a few times with very low psi in both tyres, but it doesn't look as if it has caused damage.

dunlop-front.jpgdunlop-rear1.jpgdunlop-rear2.jpgdunlop-rear3.jpg
 

LewFZ1

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When you hit the dirt was the road in shade, maybe a wee touch of lingering frost or black ice , Spot of Diesel? The stock tyres are not great but I never really had an issue with them. Sometimes folk over think about tyre temps, only time I would even be thinking about what temp my tyres are is if I knew I was going for a pacey ride. Best one I have ever seen was a guy on a sports Gsxr he was throwing the bike from side to side going up a straight road trying to get heat into the tyres. He was doing it so violently he flipped the thing, fecking idiot.
 

gazpachu

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Yeah, that's only in Formula 1... For motorcycles, all you can do to warm-up your tyres (without warmers) is to accelerate and break. I'm not an expert but that's what I read in several places.

I don't remember seeing anything slippery in the asphalt (although that could be the entire reason) nor opening gas excessively. That's why I'm more inclined to think that the issue is related with pressure and temperature (either from the tyre and/or from the asphalt).

I also don't remember having time at all to rectify. As soon as I felt a slight loss of traction at the back, I was already being thrown away from the bike.
 
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Fluke

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Hi pal, sorry to hear about your off. Hope your nouse is feeling better:p
You asked for new tyre suppliers and a tank repair place and I think I can help.
Firstly tyres. I go to Burwins on Essex road N1. They are about the cheapest out there and if you go for a set of michelins, there's a £25 refund promo from michelin at the moment.
I've got PR4s on mine at the moment and swear by them.
To get your ding in your tank fixed, get in touch with the very helpful Martin at Sudden Impact (0208 590 2200)
I flipped my big bang R1 on track and he sorted out my paintwork beautifully.
 

stevecbr

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I dont think theres a problem with the stock dunlops (there not great, but not lethally bad either). Sounds like just cold tyres.
I've used the S20's, BT023's and currently the Michelin PR3's, all need warming up before riding quick, but as I dont thrash a cold engine they are usually warm by the time the engine has warmed up.
As for pressures, most fitters recommend 36f, 38r for modern bikes. The recommended 42psi is an arse covering exercise that manufacturers use to protect themselves. In reality I believe you should use 36/36 solo, and 36/42 two up, or with luggage etc.
 

bobh

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I've noticed that when Performance Bike mag do comparative tests of tyres on a circuit, they use 36/36. Which are actually quite high pressures for track use, but at least make a good baseline.

Currently I'm using 35 front 37 rear (cold) on my stock Dunlops (just coming up to 1000 miles - hardly any wear showing). But I think I could go lower at both ends - the front is quite harsh on bumpy bends so a bit more cushioning from the tyre would be nice.

I may take the bike to Castle Combe in about a month (though I'll have to refit the stock silencer to get it through their ultra-strict noise test) so I'll play around with the pressures and see how they perform.
 

Scraggydog64

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36F/36R tyre pressures for the road even with the wife on the back. I am 14st and she's 8st. Always give your tyres a few files to warm up.

The original Dunlop 214s were average at best. Michelin Pilot Road 4s are very good. I had to change mine because of a puncture and got some of the new Metzler Roadtec 01s which are brilliant. They even look good!

Cheers Scragg
 

Unfazed

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I'm torm between Roadtecs and PR4's I've had PR4's on my previous bike and they were brilliant, hence the choice to fit them to the Tracer but are the Roadtecs much better?
 

Tropicocity

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Hi,

A couple of days ago I had an accident in Newbury. I'm mostly fine. My nouse was bleeding and my knees hurt, but the head is fine. I fainted for a couple of minutes. I lost control of the back tyre in the second part of a double bend (first right then left). It was probably the 5th bend of the morning. I wasn't very fast, maybe around 30mph but my tyres were really cold (the bike was in open air all night) and it was 8:15 in the morning with an aprox. air temp of 5 to 10 Celsius, which means very cold asphalt! I completely forgot about the temperature and went too confident into the bend... :(

Anyway, I was wondering if you guys could give me some tips and recommendations regarding the Dunlop 214 tyres. I've heard other bikers say that they wait around 10 minutes for the tyres to warm up before pushing the bike... How do you guys do it? What's the recommended temperature? Do you use 42psi at the back and 36psi in the front? Do you use something like Fobo Bike to know the temperature?

And lastly, which place do you recommend to change tyres in London? and which place to fix a dent in the tank (including new paint)?

Thanks!
Having just got home from replacing my D214s I can attest to the fact that they really are not good tyres at all. I've had a couple of cases where the rear has slid at 20mph going into a bend, it was a bit wet but it was by no means a sharp turn. Went originally to get the rear repaired (nail puncture) but when I got there I was told it was close enough to the wear mark that it'd be more cost effective to replace.

I first went to Oval Motorcycle Centre, very nice place where you can actually rent a proper bike bench with a gas lift and all tools, with mechanics at hand to help you out and teach you if you need it (£27 an hour to rent a bench though I wasn't renting one today!).

He referred me to FWR tyres a couple miles up in Kennington, those guys stock loooads of tyres - all the latest Pirelli, Michelin, Metzeler, Bridgestone, etc, and I managed to get a new set put on there and then which took under half an hour :)

I went with Angel STs as they're still very good tyres and I don't cover enough miles in a year to justify GT pricing myself, and they look lovely!

Edit: I forgot to mention that my bike has only done 3500 miles from new, I could've stretched the rear out until about 4000 at most but it would probably be MOT fail level at that point. Piss poor tyre life!
 
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