Which oil

[Len C]

Hi guys

I'm asking a question that has probably been asked many times before but as I am new to the forum and don't yet know my way round I thought
I would pose the question to you good people.
The question is which oil for the engine, I have read many different reviews on the internet with so many different opinions as to use synthetic
or semi synthetic, different brands and so on.

I know you will point me in the right direction, many thanks in anticipation

Len

 

[Shaun64]

I change my oil & filter every 4000 miles as I believe it's dirty oil that damages your engine not whether it's semi or fully synthetic,saying that I have been using shell 4t fully synthetic 10/40 mainly because you can buy it from eBay for £30 including post,but from now on I will be using millers fully synthetic (which is shell oil)£28 from my local auto spares were I also get the filter £5 ish for a Mahl filter,I only pick fully synthetic as it's only a couple of quid more expensive than semi,under £35 for an oil and filter change isn't bad.

 

[motorcycleboy]

I use the Bel-Ray EXS 10w50... price is 14 euros per liter. Another cheaper and quite good option is the ELF MOTOtech4 10w50 for the half (7 euros)

 

[chump]

cheapest semi I can find on ebay.

 

[LewFZ1]

Changing oil and filter at 4000 miles is daft and just wasting money , unless that is the annual mileage. Yamaha recommend 6000 miles for oil change and 12000 miles for filter change. All you are doing is looking after a bike for the next owner. How many keep a bike for longer than 3 years or 30,000 miles? not many I reckon. Personally I would rather spend my money on chain maintenance lubrication. I would never keep oil in a bike for over a year especially if the bike is laid up for long periods as in winter lay up.

 

[Shaun64]

I can't understand not changing the oil filter every time you change the oil as they are only a fiver that's dafter still to me,I agree not many people keep there bikes for more than 3 years but I plan to keep the tracer and for what it costs to change the oil I think it's 30 odd quid well spent,Yamaha also state that changing your engine oil is the single most important thing you can do for the life of the engine.regards chain maintaince I use gear oil around £4 a litre which last ages and keeps the chain rust free and last 20.000 miles.

 

[LewFZ1]

Yes Shaun64 Yamaha do state changing your oil is the most important thing you can do to preserve engine life, that is why they state in the Manual 6000 for oil and 12000 miles for filter. I agree does seem strange not to recommend changing the filter at the same time. Modern oils are a lot better than oil in days gone by. I will always change my oil if my bike is in winter layup as moisture can accumulate on the engine casings. Anyone who only rides a bike 5 miles to work and 5 miles back again should perhaps change more frequently as the oil never really gets up to full operating temperature. Each to there own , still think though a bike that is used for decent long runs on a regular basis does not need the oil changing at 4000miles some folk maybe have a lack of understanding about how long oil will keep performing efficiently.

 

[Shaun64]

Modern oils are much better I agree but Yamaha don't want are engines to last for ever so maybe that's why they don't recommend changing the oil filter every time,maybe changing the oil at 6000 miles is a buying point for some owners who don't service there own bikes as it keeps the cost of servicing down,triumph we're talking about extending there service intervals to 10.000 miles like Ducati have to some this is a real bonus,I come from a preventative maintenance background so I will be sticking to every 4000 mile so we will have to agree to disagree lewfz1

 

[LewFZ1]

As you say Shaun each to there own , I come from an engineering back ground and sailed as Chief engineer at sea for more years than I care to remember. On ships we did our own lub oil analysis and in 43 years I never lost an engine due to oil failure. At least it is good to see a bit of dialogue on what is a quiet forum , stay safe and enjoy your bike.

 

[Shaun64]

Lew I agree this forum is very quiet verging on dull which is a real shame as it could be a great forum,cheers.

 

[Unfazed]

Oil,,,,,

I've got a Mk2 Fazer, I changed the oil every 4000 miles and filter every 8000, 75K miles later it's still running like a watch...

Lets hope the Tracer's that reliable

 

[Unfazed]

P.S., always used Silkolene (always have) and cheapest 10/40 semi, works a treat and no need for more expensive oils as they won't do anything extra despite all the claims

 

[Shaun64]

That's good going unfazed 75.000 have shims needed any adjustment in that time? Fingers crossed tracers will be as good.

 

[Unfazed]

Shims checked at 70,000, no adjustment required

 

[Shaun64]

That's good going.

 

[bobh]

My understanding is that there are four main factors governing oil degradation, and hence how often it needs to be changed.

1. Contamination by other liquids, principally water (condensation) and petrol. As has already been said, a bike that's used regularly for decently long journeys shouldn't suffer from this because these contaminants should evaporate off when the engine is hot.

2. Contamination by solid particles. In theory the filter should keep this under control, but the fairly crude (in filtration terms) ones used on bikes have their limitations. In particular, on a bike, there will always be a build-up of wear particles from the clutch, which is one reason that the oil you drain out is darker than the new stuff. Personally I would always change the filter at the same time as the oil, if only to get rid of as much of the old stuff as possible.

3. "Wear" of the oil itself. Conventional multigrade mineral oils use viscosity index improvers to beef them up (i.e. reduce the natural tendency to thin out) when they get hot, These VI improvers have long-chain molecules, which are gradually chopped up by the machinations going on inside the engine (and gearbox, in the case of bikes), so the oil loses its high temperature properties and becomes less effective at normal running temperatures. Synthetic oils will last longer than conventional mineral oils because they are not reliant on these additives to the same extent. I recall that when Mobil 1 (the first widely available synthetic, I think) was introduced one of their boffins claimed that a single fill could be made to last the lifetime of an engine - provided it was properly filtered and kept free of contaminants. Unfortunately, that in effect means putting it through a centrifuge regularly, which isn't really an option on a bike. Semi-synthetics are obviously a halfway house between straight mineral oils and full synths. The fact is that semi-synths should not deteriorate significantly during a one-year/6000 mile period (unless you're really thrashing the engine, e.g. racing), so if you're doing oil changes on that basis then full synths are an unnecessary luxury.

4. Degradation of the oil due to overheating. I've never come across this in any motorcycle, though it is not unknown in things like hydraulic systems operating in hot environments. I guess if you ran an engine with low oil level, to the point of it seizing up, it could happen, but then the condition of the oil would probably be the least of your worries.

What is important is to use a motorcycle-specific oil, which should give better gearbox lubrication as well as not allowing clutch slip. Some older bikes in a low state of tune can run happily on car oil (Yamaha Diversions are an example) but I'd prefer not to chance it in a MT-09, unless there was absolutely no alternative - any oil is better than none!

 

[LewFZ1]

Well put sir as I have said before changing oil at 4000 miles is bad for two reasons (1) the environment (2)your pocket. I am a firm believer in changing the oil annually if you mileage is below 6000 miles, Yamaha say change the filter at 12,000 miles but I do change at the same time as the oil.
But if folk want to change at 4000 miles that is down to them.
I never keep bikes very long 2 years usually while I do look after them I am not really into over kill as you are only really looking after it for the next owner.

 

[deeppurple]

My understanding is that there are four main factors governing oil degradation, and hence how often it needs to be changed.

1. Contamination by other liquids, principally water (condensation) and petrol. As has already been said, a bike that's used regularly for decently long journeys shouldn't suffer from this because these contaminants should evaporate off when the engine is hot.

2. Contamination by solid particles. In theory the filter should keep this under control, but the fairly crude (in filtration terms) ones used on bikes have their limitations. In particular, on a bike, there will always be a build-up of wear particles from the clutch, which is one reason that the oil you drain out is darker than the new stuff. Personally I would always change the filter at the same time as the oil, if only to get rid of as much of the old stuff as possible.

3. "Wear" of the oil itself. Conventional multigrade mineral oils use viscosity index improvers to beef them up (i.e. reduce the natural tendency to thin out) when they get hot, These VI improvers have long-chain molecules, which are gradually chopped up by the machinations going on inside the engine (and gearbox, in the case of bikes), so the oil loses its high temperature properties and becomes less effective at normal running temperatures. Synthetic oils will last longer than conventional mineral oils because they are not reliant on these additives to the same extent. I recall that when Mobil 1 (the first widely available synthetic, I think) was introduced one of their boffins claimed that a single fill could be made to last the lifetime of an engine - provided it was properly filtered and kept free of contaminants. Unfortunately, that in effect means putting it through a centrifuge regularly, which isn't really an option on a bike. Semi-synthetics are obviously a halfway house between straight mineral oils and full synths. The fact is that semi-synths should not deteriorate significantly during a one-year/6000 mile period (unless you're really thrashing the engine, e.g. racing), so if you're doing oil changes on that basis then full synths are an unnecessary luxury.

4. Degradation of the oil due to overheating. I've never come across this in any motorcycle, though it is not unknown in things like hydraulic systems operating in hot environments. I guess if you ran an engine with low oil level, to the point of it seizing up, it could happen, but then the condition of the oil would probably be the least of your worries.

What is important is to use a motorcycle-specific oil, which should give better gearbox lubrication as well as not allowing clutch slip. Some older bikes in a low state of tune can run happily on car oil (Yamaha Diversions are an example) but I'd prefer not to chance it in a MT-09, unless there was absolutely no alternative - any oil is better than none!

Well said, BobH. Thank you. I am using a MT09 and i have been running car engine oil on her since the beginning and she still rides like a dream and in mint condition. The marketing maestro are those who set out to tell people the differences between car and motorcycle engine oil. they are fundamentally the same. You can even use oil made for diesel engine on your car/motorcycle. They are they same.

 

[deeppurple]

Modern oils are much better I agree but Yamaha don't want are engines to last for ever so maybe that's why they don't recommend changing the oil filter every time,maybe changing the oil at 6000 miles is a buying point for some owners who don't service there own bikes as it keeps the cost of servicing down,triumph we're talking about extending there service intervals to 10.000 miles like Ducati have to some this is a real bonus,I come from a preventative maintenance background so I will be sticking to every 4000 mile so we will have to agree to disagree lewfz1

Yamaha knows their stuffs and they will not deliberate teach you how to screw up the engine. To change the oil filter at every 20k km is absolutely fine. Why do it more often than you should? Lets not try to outsmart Yamaha's engineers. Most people have the habit to waste, and fear for nothing. Just follow what Yamaha said and you'll be fine. No fear.