ZX10 shock conversion

[motorcycleboy]

Again it looks well used but looks don't mean a great deal, do you know how many kms it's done, when I bought mine I was told it had 9000miles (about 14500kms) and was covered in chain lube and road grime. It cleaned up a treat and is working better than the standard unit. For €80 you can afford to have it rebuilt if it needs it. [emoji3]


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The seller told me that it was on the bike for 4000km, allthough i can see some corrosion and some spots at spring that caused of small rocks during riding as he told me.
I know that is weird explanation and my experience is that may caused during dissasembling of the crashed ZX10..
Anyway the price is OK.. i gave a call to my suspension specialist to ask him about the modification and he told me that he could do only the 10w oil change in my forks.
I have to ask him for a good service at ZX10 device before the installation..
So i have to manage the absorber change with mechanic.
Last questions: which hole i must drill and open at 12mm instead of 10mm that is now, the frame's or the linkage's or both ?? as, if i understood well, there is a 8mm height difference between standard and ZX10 unit..

 

[My Toy]

There is an 8mm difference in the length of the shock when measured eye to eye against the original Yamaha one. You need to open the bottom hole to accommodate the 12mm bolt, look on the FZ09 forum for full details. Some have drilled them or used a milling machine to open it up but some, like me have simply used a round file to open the hole up. If you open the hole up towards the top of the shock you can reduce the extra 8mm difference by about 2mm. Not a lot, agreed but it'll reduce the increased ride height by a few mm, mine currently sits 15mm higher than standard but I haven't found any ill effects in the handling.


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[motorcycleboy]

Thank you very much for your help mate !

 

[motorcycleboy]

Well, i finally found the shock i was looking for !
Its a KYB rear shock from a ZX10R.
It has silver coloured spring and the unit is bronze colour.
I bought it for 100 euros.
After cleaning with 2 all-purpose wipes is as shiny as brand new.
Next days i will arange for drilling the M10 bolt to M12 towards the upper to get the 2mm less difference [from 330mm (stock shock height) to 338mm (ZX shock's height) sized after drilling to 336mm].
Now, my questions are about how to set it before i put it on my bike.
I'm 70kg (about 150lbs) but i get passengers occasionally.
If LSB and HSB refairs to compresion dumping, Marthy suggests LSB all open HSB one turn from full soft... but do i have to turn the screws CW or CCW ? I suppose that those screws are at the top of the shock but which one is for what ? The bigger shinny bolt is marked with "COMP" has a "H" and a "S", at the center of this there is a small screw which i can screw it in or out..
At the swingarm side where i have to drill the M12 hole, the screw is marked "TEN"... I think "Tension" means the Compresion Rebound..
Marthy suggests to start all open.. i suppose this happens when turn the screw Counter Clock Wise all the way out...
As for the preload the shock spring was putted at 3/4 of the full length (stiff) and i used the MT's tool and some WD40 to unscrew it first and then by fingers without any effort.
Any suggestions, opinions, are helpfull and welcomed

Excuse me for my poor knowledge of language..

 

[My Toy]

The 14mm nut is for high speed comp damping and the screw is for low speed comp damping. The screw marked ten is rebound. Start with them all open, fully CCW. The only problem is you can't easily get to the comp damping when the shock is fitted but with a bit of effort you can still adjust the comp if it's not right with a spanner and screwdriver thought the slot in the frame. I'm 93kg all up and the spring was set at 180mm initially but I had to back it out a bit cos it was too stiff, I also added 1/2 turn on all screws and found this suits me pretty well. [emoji373]


A vee four and an inline triple, the two best sounds in motorcycling. [emoji101]

 

[motorcycleboy]

I just got back my ZX10R shock from lathe who drilled the swingarm holes from 10mm to 12mm towards the upper side and i arrange to put it on bike on Friday.
Now hope that my slim-fit body (70kg=154lbs without gear) are quite heavy enough to make the spring work fine..
Playing with the shock i realize that when i turn out all the preload rings the spring is very loose, but when i turn the rings in about 1,5cm then its become steady.

 

[motorcycleboy]

WTF, i measured the distance between the centers of the holes and is 33cm or 32,9cm..
I thought that the distance of ZX10 shock's holes is 33,8cm (as i mentioned above in older posts) so i went to lathe which drilled the hole about 2mm towards the upper.
But in my case, i didh't check the distance before... so now i hope when i put it on the bike not become lower than as is with stock shock...

Joke: i'm shocked with my "new" shock

All my queries will be answered when i put the 2 shocks beside and check the exactly distance between them..

 

[motorcycleboy]

Well, i fitted the ZX10 rear shock yesterday.
Beside my dealer's shop there is the official dealership of Ohlins & WP in Greece who helped me and my mechanic to fix some matters.
Firstly the Ohlins specialist was sugest me to revalve the front forks as a cheap sollution for the poor front and my mechanic took-off the front and we gave it to him for the procedure but then the susp.specialist said to us that the main problem is the weak front springs which he measured at 75kg/mm (he said that road bikes sprints must be between 80-110kg/mm) and suggests me to put heavier Ohlins springs (90kg/mm) which i accepted.
Then the discusion was about the fork oil.
After research he decide (as for road use) to put in Denicol fork oil number -0- (5W). He gave me the bottle back with 200cc in it.
The suspension specialist was negative at my will to use rebound all open (as i did when on stock springs) and he gave some turns at right fork's rebound bolt.
Now the front work's better, not so much diving when braking, but i find out that is some "fast" than i prefer.

Meanwhile, my mechanic had taken-off the rear stock shock.
He only took-off rear wheel and huger and he worked without take-off the tank... even the seat !
Is was easy for him to took-off the rear shock in some minutes that way.
Before installed the ZX shock he had to make round by drilling the edges of shock at the linkage area.
Then we put the stock and the ZX shock side by side and measure their exactly length.
The stock shock is 329mm when the ZX shock (after the drilling i did towards the upper for the M12 bolt) is at 327mm.
Finally the ZX shock i've bought has the same length as MT's but i thought that it was 338mm. THAT'S MY MISTAKE SO NEVER DRILL IT BEFORE YOU MEASURE IT !!!
The Ohlins specialist said that the limit of difference in shock's height must be from -1mm till +5mm.
In my case the difference is -2mm but the seat doesh't seems to sit less than 6mm as it was with stock shock.
After specialist's suggestion the mechanic putted the preload at 180mm but then the static sag was minimum, so we reduce the preload a little and now the rider's sag is at 30mm (racing).
We fix the preload after installation which it was a little bit firmly.
We' ve put the shock downwards so there is some space between shock's compr. unit and starter.
Also, the M12 stock bolt is a little bit short.. as we didn't have any longer we put the same but without one of the 2 washers.
Maybe the shock suffer from engines temperature but that way we didn't have to cut tank's plastic undertray.
After installation we put the 14mm bolt for HSB at 1,5T from fully open but the specialist using a screwdriver gave some bolts at LSB.. i think that he had put it in the midlle and i have to check it out.
Then he gave a few twists at the down bolt for rebound.. maybe i will decrease it a little.
Another thing i must say is that there is a minimum space between down side of spring and the swingarm but no touch.

Riding the bike after all the above i realize that the front now sits higher, no more diving when braking and no more smashing of nuts on the tank !
Also i increase the speed when turning about 15-20km at the same turns but i couldh't find-out if this happens from the front heavier springs.
I feel the bike a little bit more light but i don't like the "faster" rebound front and rear.
Allthough its better but now i feel the same speed-wobling i was feeling at 200km with stock shock, now is coming at the lower speed of 180km.
Maybe by doing the rebound and the LSB slower it would be better.

Totally cost is 100 euros for ZX shock, 10euros for lathe, 135 euros for Ohlins springs, 15 euros for Denicol fork oil, 20 euros for specialist's work, 20 euros tip to my mechanic.. so 300 euros for all, but i have to give some more money to my mechanic who spend more than 2 hours of his time for me.

I also feel the need to say a big THANK YOU to: Mr Toy, Marthy for their help, and to Boro, 134chy for their comments.
All the weekend i was reading a lot of posts at FZ09org..
Forgive me if i forget somebody..
Cheers mates !

 

[My Toy]

The faster rebound is probably due to the stronger springs pushing back harder with the crap damping valves and thin oil. I installed progressive springs, stronger than stock, and 15w oil ( it came in the kit). I know lots of people have been advised that 10w should be the thickest oil used but I have found it ok. The preload is set at six rings showing above the fork tops and the dive is much reduced as is the way the fork settles back after I release the brake. Try it with 10w oil you can always revert back to the 5w if you don't like it.


A vee four and an inline triple, the two best sounds in motorcycling. [emoji101]

 

[motorcycleboy]

After some km at my every day commute roads (home-work-home) i've found that my bike has have faster rebounds front & rear.
So, today i checked with a screwdriver the specialist's settings and i reduce them.
First i did the LSB which it was at 3,5 rounds from fully open. i set it at 1 round from full open (CCW).
Then i did the rebound which it was setted at 2&3/4 rounds from full open and i set at 1 round from full open too.
I remember Mr Toy you have wrote that when you'd setted LSB, HSB & REB at half a turn you've found it better.
Also Marthy has posted his settings at 1,5T HSB, LSB full open, REB 1,25T.
I' ve put the HSB at mine's at 1,5T when i putted on bike and the specialist didh't change it (i din't mention to him the need of M14 key.).
Now i feel my bike less softer at small bumps when at bigger is better. I like it more at those settings.

At front i saw that there are 7 rings (and half) sawing... With std springs (75kg/mm) it was set at 6 rings.
The Ohlins (90kg/mm) progressive springs has reduce the dive when braking but cause of the light oil (5W) the front saves all of its travel.
They' ve put a rubber ring at the right leg to help me find the correct sag and this ring is now staying at 1cm from the end of fork's travel.
I'm thinking to give some preload.. at 6 rings sawing as it was when std.
The reason that we decide to put in Denicol -0- (5W) was -according the specialist- because Denicol has behaviour charts for fork oil at 40C and at 100C and at 100C the Denicol -0- has better results (i don't remember the exactly numbers) than WP 7,5 which i was ask to put in.
Allthough now the front is "reading" the road better than with stock springs.... before we putted the forks on bike the mechanic gave me to push them down hard just to realise that the left leg is so weak, even with the heavier springs, it just springing up, when the right is much stiffer cause of the cartridge's help.
About installing one right cartridge to the left leg the suspension specialist was negative. He said that KYB has made it for working that way... i don't know if i have to trust his opinion (for commercial reasons). He said that i have to do revalving (the cheapest way) or to put in cartridges (the expensive way).
For know i've spent more money than i was planning and i let it as is but i'll try to find out better settings for my 150lbs of pure muscle

P.S. I just had a look at front's rebound and it was setted at 2 and a half turns from fully open. i reduced the half of turn, i'll check it on the way back home and tomorow i'll post my findings..

 

[motorcycleboy]

I 've measure the seat's height and i've find it at 810mm instead of the 815mm of the stock shock.
When the front is now "ace" even with no preload at all, i must reduce as soon as possible the preload at the ZX shock.
Instead of my will they 've put so much preload at spring which is something i don't like.
So, the first need is the rear's preload reduction.
The other thing -and i need your opinions/advices- is that now i'm thinking to reduce the height of the front forks for a few mm (about 5mm) to balance the rear's height reduction.
What do you think about ?
What would be the pros and cons if i'll do this ?

 

[motorcycleboy]

Any advice to fix my "matter" mates ?

 

[marthy]

ZX-14 shock maybe? The canister was strait up or at an angle? There's a pretty good chart here from all X-reference.

 

[motorcycleboy]

Mine is the same as Fluke's.. same colour, same gas bottle, the sticker on it is writing at the bottom: Kawasaki KYB.

 

[Locksmith]

By lowering rear and/or front you are messing with the bikes basic geometry. Go very carefully one step at a time.
You could easily end up with a pig of a handling bike.
On the other hand you could hit the sweet spot and we will all copy you.

 

[My Toy]

You could easily end up with a pig of a handling bike.
.

Bit like what Yamaha gave us out of the crate then[emoji57]
Seriously though I agree, only do something you can reverse if it doesn't go to plan[emoji774]



A vee four and an inline triple, the two best sounds in motorcycling. [emoji101]

 

[marthy]

By lowering rear and/or front you are messing with the bikes basic geometry. Go very carefully one step at a time.
You could easily end up with a pig of a handling bike.
On the other hand you could hit the sweet spot and we will all copy you.

When I got the bike I play with this a bit on stock suspension. Lowering the front end 8-10 mm greatly help to get the front end feel more planted. You achieve the same with the 2008-10 ZX-10 shock but by rising the rear end instead. I have a solid 10-12K miles on this package with no issues. Even did 3 track days with great handling... that's the sweet spot LOL

 

[motorcycleboy]

Trying to find out and understand what is going on with my ZX shock, 2 days ago i ask the help of Marthy.
He immediatelly responded and as a point of reference he told me to check the distance between the swingarm & the top side of a nut under the seat, when the bike is on side stand.
He wrote that this distance at his bike is 23.5"(597mm).
I did the check and realize that at my bike is 596mm when at a brand new MT-09 (with stock shock) the same distance is 583mm...that means that my bike is 13mm higher than stock !
Now i believe that my missunderstoodness (sic) happened cause of the Ohlins specialist, who by trying to convince me for the need of an Ohlins back shock he measured my ZX shock with the spring fully loose... so there wasn' t any preload to extend the shock at its original length !!!
Last week i'd lost my sleep for three days... i was dreamming suspension settings in Engligh language trying to find out what has happened...weird !!
Another reason for my "block-out" was the fact that i put 90kg Ohlins springs in my front fork tha same day.
The bike got more height front & rear but because of my crapy stock front which become more higher and is planted with the new springs, my mind had been stucked at the 327mm i had seen and then one thing brang the other...etc etc etc.
Yesterday i'd reduce again by 1/4 of turn the spring's preload but now it has more free sag than the apropriate and i have to give some more preload to achieve the correct sag.
Also i've put the HSB 2,5T, LSB 1T, REB 1T but i'm not sattisfied yet and i'll start again from the beggining.. The problem with the settings is that i'm underweighted (68-70kg).
By the way i want to say a big "THANKS" to Martin and all of you !
And there is no need to talk about lowering the front anymore...

 

[Locksmith]

If you are only 70kg maybe you could have left the standard springs in the forks?

I wish I was only 70kg

 

[motorcycleboy]

If you are only 70kg maybe you could have left the standard springs in the forks?

I wish I was only 70kg

Well, i get used the std fork 09's springs on 6 rings showing, REB 1/2T from fully open. It was good at first but the more km i did the more my front felt "tired".
The last days my fork had saved all of its travel when heavy braking and i felt it less planted than before..
Now, with the Ohlins 90kg/mm progressive springs at 7 rings showing and REB 2T from fully open i have better turn-in and can achieve higher speeds at corners.
But i feel it is so early to write further..
I got used to ride it in stock springs for 16.000km(10K mi) and now is like i'm riding a "new" bike..

P.S. tonight i'll put a little more preload at ZX shock... i find out that its spring is quite "a little" even for my underweighted body..
My suspension preference for all my bikes is soft front-harder rear.. now i'm stiff front-soft rear with weak rebound.
I have to find out the "best" setting for my riding-style that is "supermoto style" .